Sun Oct 26 2008 - Tired of the Misperceptions about Obama
Tired of the Misperceptions about Obama
After a long while I finally started to browse some random diaries and came across richardsworld diary. Not the first time there but I'm always interested in people so anywho, I was reading his (mis)perception of the Obama tax plan and other stuff. Being politically astute and quite familiar with history, I decided to take him on. Below is what he first wrote and my response (both unedited).

*Caution: Fairly long*

"There are thousands of small businesses in this
country that make well over $250,000 and those
people will pay thru the nose in taxes under The
Annointed One, Lord Obama's administration. As
a result, thousands if not millions of people who
work in these small businesses will suffer loss of
their jobs as a direct result of their employer's
higher taxes.

Just because you make, lets say $85,000.00 a year
you are not safe if your employer is forced to pay
huge taxes. The more he/she pays in taxes the less
there is to pay employees, upgrade equipment, help
pay insurance for the employee, and all the other
costs that come with owning and running a company.

Why is it that people think that if you own a business
you are so loaded that you can spend, spend, spend?

Obama is a true Socialist and believes that spreading
the wealth is the thing to do. This country was built
on capitolisim and free trade. Those with ambition,
work ethic and who are honest, get ahead and make a good
life for themselves. And guess what, they are the
people who end up providing the jobs that the lazy ass
loosers do. The ones that suck that time clock, lay out
of work, and bitch cause they don't have shit and the
boss does.

It's called "Social Class" and it will always be the way it
is. The winners are the people who go out and make shit
happen, not set around and whine cause they are of a
particular race, sex, or come from a poor family or a
wealthy family.

I have known a lot of people who came from wealthy families
and turned out to be lazy ass bums. I also have know even
more people who didn't have shit but went out into the
world and did something with their lives.

People who think Comrade Obama is a magical cure for
their miserable lot in life are very foolish and I
expect they will be hanging out in a pumpkin patch in
six nights waiting for The Great Pumpkin to bless
their Halloween.

As a personal example of my politics and the way I
think and vote I can share this.

I have two men that I have been friends with for over ten
years each. One is a black man who owns a insurance
company here and has served as a State Represenative
for as long as I have known him. He is a democrat and
a damn fine man. The other man is a white republican
who has failed at business, is a greedy fuck, and would
stab his own kids in the back to get what he wanted.

This white man has decided to run against the black
man this year. Guess who I'm voting for. If you guessed
The black democrat your right! See it's not the color of
a man's skin, although Obama and his supporters will have
you believe it is, and it's not whether he is republican
or democrat. I would be voting for Hillary if she were
the one running. I am voting for Mccain because he is
the better choice for America. Nothing to do with race
or party. A true Patriotic American puts Country First
not party or race or even gender.

We live in America, a free nation of capitolist who have
the right to vote for whom they choose and speak freely.
It's a birth right. For those of you who want to vote for
Obama, please know that I respect you for exercising that
right. You don't have to hate someone for their vote
although I still think it's a stupid fucking thing to do.
Thats how I can be friends with these two men and vote for
one and chastise the other for being an ignorant, piece of
shit that I don't associate with socially but still speak to
if I see him on the street.

Only in America can you vote for a white republican for
president and a black democrat for state representative,
and think that Bill Clinton is the best president a fella
could ever have lol.

Well I need a fresh pot of coffee but I will be back.

In the mean time Think Mccain and keep your country safe!"

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Seeing this sort of misinformation throughout the campaign 08, I wrote the following:I happened to read this entry and I think you are misinformed about quite a few things and I think I should offer some supported facts to perhaps atleast make you consider the idea that you are possibly wrong about Obama.

Ok, first off, a business that makes well over $250,000 is hardly small. That being said, I think the gist of your argument is that making these companies pay more will result in less money being spent on hiring workers etc. Yet, when the owners of these companies get more money due to less taxes, do they really stimulate the economy? Bush has given these companies quite the tax break using this trick down theory and look where we are now. The many reason for this is that the owners aren’t reinvesting all their money back into the company. Some are spending are portion while saving some as well. (which is a reasonable action for people in that situation to undertake) But, that savings portion is what is dragging our economy. When you give people who are relatively poor money, what do they do? They spend it. Every last penny. This creates more demand for products. More products being made equals more workers. Afterall, tax cuts for corporations are redistribution of wealth, to the rich!


Now you say your hero is Bill Clinton. So lets look at what he did to stimulate the economy. He expanded the earned income tax credit for low income workers. He signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, it cut taxes for 15,000,000 low income families and *gasp* raised taxes on the wealthiest 1.2%. This is in addition to the taxpayer relief act of 1997 where he introduced tax credits for having children under 17. OMG, Clinton was a socialist!!! He spreaded out other people’s wealth!!!! Yet somehow, the economy expanded exponentially. Why do you think they are supporting Obama over McCain? Obama is far closer to Clinton’s policies than McCain.

The rich have enough, its about time the wealthy helped people who are struggling to pay their mortgages, prescriptions and other assorted costs. They have enough blessings to spread some out without hurting themselves. In the end, they recoup their costs and then some. During the Great Depression, the New Deal redistributed the wealth and *what* we broke out of the depression. Hmmm. Seems there is a trend going on here.


Now then, no one is preaching socialism. (there is a reason free market capitalism no longer exists and there are all these regulations). Balance is what is optimal. Complete socialism where everyone is totally supported by the government zaps motivation and creativity out of workers. (in addition to lowering GDP) However, we are too out of balance currently. The rich have so much that we can’t afford what they are selling. I mean, where is the complaints about socialism when we give them bailouts?


Now then, you are also perpetuating the myth of hard work as a means to succeed in America. It sounds so appealing afterall and just so commonsensical. Yet, its funny that the statistics show that the social class your born in is the social class you die in. Yes, we all can cite someone who we know that they were poor and became rich and vice versa, but in general, that is not what happens. That’s what research is for, to prove that just because you observe something doesn’t make it a general rule everywhere and for everybody. The thing is, some are born with more cultural, economic and social capital than others. Now I don’t have time to completely lay out how something like cultural capital affects ones ability in life but I guess I should briefly explain. (and it’s something I highly suggest you look up and read for yourself) Basically, when someone of the upper class starts to fail at life (or even school) they have more access to the resources needed to avoid falling. (mom can afford to pay for a tutor) When someone upper class needs help with obtaining a job or information, they have a more powerful social network to rely on due to being put in all sorts of programs (like music and swimming lessons) where they meet others who can help them when they are down. (get them a job, give them some quality advice) I can’t give the whole lesson here, you gotta look this stuff up.

I mean , lets be real. Most people do try hard to succeed ok. Most do work hard at work and saying otherwise is to be ignorant of the American work ethic. People who mow lawns for a living or work in factories are working hard. Yet, they don’t move up because they lack the opportunities to do so. (how the hell they gonna go to college when they are forced to move out their parents house at 18 and make a living while others get to save money while mommy pays for everything? No education equals stuck. They only get paid enough to survive for the most part.

And lets not forget the basics, for some to be rich, there must be many poor. Someone’s gotta clean the sewers and make minimum wage. Inequality is built into the system. We can’t drastically change it (lest it collapse) but we can make it less unfair. Obama is FAR from perfect, but it better deals with the situation at hand.

And lets not pretend that some people are more patriotic than others. Everyone wants the best for this country. We live here and why would we root against ourselves. Sure, some people will vote based race, gender or party affiliation on both sides, but the point is to escape that using history as a model for what works bests.


Furthermore, there is no proof that McCain can keep the country more safer than Obama (or vice versa) I mean both are going to do what they think is best for our security. Its not like he’s going to disband the army or stop airport screeners ok.

Lastly, if you do respond to me, disprove my points. Don’t pull a McCain and try to use character attacks as a means to sidestepping the issues or the weaknesses of your argument. I mean, I will be really interested to see how you respond to everything, but especially the points I make about Bill Clinton distributing the wealth to fuel the economy. Have fun!"
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Now then, if someone wants to vote McCain on something like his views on the abortion issue or gay rights, that's cool. To each their own. But Obama has McCain licked on the economy. Foreign policy is essentially even as both are likely to pull some out of Iraq and send some to Afghanistan. And as I said, I don't forsee any cuts in the size of our army so its almost a wash. Honestly, I think the economy is the thing we should focus on than the social issues but I understand that some believe all this is tied to how we act socially. Ok...but I think if we want to solve the disintegration of moral values that we should focus shunning adulterers and those that portray that lifestyle *the media*. Adulterers ruin more families than gay marriage and I believe negatively affects our economy. Anyways, I'll go more into that if someone is interested.


As for my life and lil tinoz.....well I've decided not to write about that anymore. I can't talk to you guys like your my best friend or spouse when I hardly see you or hear from ya. Anywho, that is all. Vote no on Sarah Palin! Hell, I'd rather you vote Bob Barr than Palin. The lady's a walking joke. Ok Ok, that is all.

Comments (7)

Jamisinc (Legacy)
Just one point, for now, to throw into the mix: consider a family owned business, a resturant or a farm. I know of several of those where 2 or more of the family members work 16 hours a day 6 days a week (sometimes more). If 2 people work that many hours and share $250,000 a year they are making $26 an hour. $26 an hour is very good,,,but not great pay. But remember that out of that $26 they must buy thier own insurance (which would be super high since it wouldn't be through some big group, probably $10,000 a year or so), they would also have to pay their complete social security tax $35,000, then their other taxes would be about $85,000, perhaps more. So at this point their take home pay is, $12 and hour. Now add to that that they may need to hire some help to get their business to grow. These people would be taxed more under Obama's plan. You can bet that no one would be getting a job from them anytime soon.
Grumbles (Legacy)
I've got to agree with you on this, it seems like the GOP doesn't even get it. From ABC News:

$18,725 income =
$65 tax cut McCain
$567 tax cut Obama

$37,000 to $66,000 =
$1,118 tax cut McCain
$2236 tax cut Obama

$66,000 to $110,000 =
$1487 tax cut McCain
$1264 tax cut Obama

$226,982 - $603,482 =
McCain: $7,871 cut
Obama: $12.00 increase

$602,000 to $2.8 million =
$109,214 tax cut McCain
$121,689 tax increase Obama

I guess what I don't understand is where Obamaphobics get their numbers other than from the same emails that say he's an "Arab".

The facts are freely available. You can go on either candidate's website and do the math yourself.

My question is who they think should be paying for all the things this country needs, the vast majority (40%) that only owns 1% of this country's weath, or the top minority (10%) that owns 71% of it?

It doesn't make any sense to tax the hell out of the 1% of wealth, you could take it all and still have nothing.
Richardsworld (Legacy)
Why isn't such an astute man like yourself not managing a fortune 500 corporation? If you are so well versed in economics why aren't you living the high life? Just curious. Maybe you should be running the Fed.
blueberrydream (Legacy)
Wow I am new to this and am just starting to read diaries I find this very interesting.I also agree that 26.00 is not bad pay but not great either considering if you have several children. Seems like you have not considered that the 250,000 also has to pay overhead, wages for the employees,
ect. After all of that what is really left?You up the tax on these people then they have to cut back on their staff. Which takes jobs away from people not what we want to do. Tax the people that can afford it the big high dollar multi-million dollar companies.Considering from your postings you do not have a job and that seems like you are just another bumb wanting the people that actually works hard to support you. I think you would probally vote for anyone who would put some free money in your pocket. How come people like you always want to knock the ones that do good for themselves? It has to be because obviously you have not done anything with your life.
kaliko88 (Legacy)
Hmm, and this is why I don't talk politics. I don't keep up enough to counter people's assumptions with reasoned arguments. Don't you just love leaps to conclusions? Reminds me a little of Douglas Adams' definition of flying - the ability to throw yourself at the ground and miss. I think some of your commentors hit the ground so hard they dug a new ditch.

Well, at least you're talking about it, and it did help me dig a little more through the muck a that's spinning out from all sides. Jami's was the most reasoned response (not surprising there). Don't think it will change who I'm voting for, but then again, I think most everyone made up their minds about the presidential election a while ago. I've been busy researching my local elections. Dare I hope that most other people are paying as much attention to their local elections?

>^..^<

P.S. You've said that before about not writing about your personal life. Hey, it's your diary, write what you want. But .... I don't believe it. *smiles in a friendly 'yeahright' way* Besides, I've got your MySpace bookmarked, so I still see pics. Nyah nyah!
OnTheWingsofanAngel (Legacy)
hey cuz...I didn't read all of this entry afterall I only have a few minutes, but I noticed it was about Obama and McCain. People around here wanted Obama in the end.
Honey (Legacy)
Hello Tina and family,
How is that big boy of yours? Growing up fast I bet. How is everyone today? I have finally put in an entry today. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.

Love,
Honey
 
 
 
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